Gen7?

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Cola83

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I read somewhere else, that Honda wants in NASCAR... I can see it happening in 2021 and Dodge too... :)
 
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Rollo75

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No.
All I want is for the Gen-7 is that it produces a better way to pass the leader and please no WING ON IT!

1589972251251.png

One of the things that iRacing has given us, is professional drivers testing this kind of thing out for us.
The Supercars on an oval with the big rear wing out the back, looks ace.

If I was Grand Poobah and Lord High Everything Else, I would be stumping for Gen-7 to have a V8Supercar style rear wing because unlike the CoT Gen-5 the Supercars executed this properly. The rear end plates actually help to straighten up the car; kind of like the Superbird and Roadrunners of the 1970s.
 

garrett1127

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Nascar tried the wing, didn't work out to well for them viewer wise, if they went with something like this, I'd stop watching or going to any races. Nascar is ment to have a spoiler on the back, and the smaller the better, makes them drivers have to drive and control their cars.
 
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David Powers

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Looks like we're gonna have to wait another year to find out what they do. I like the idea of getting back closer to what's on the street. Symmetrical bodies and no side skirts should be interesting.
 

Cola83

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All I want is for the Gen-7 is that it produces a better way to pass the leader and please no WING ON IT!

For passing to happen, need to dirty the cars up and get rid of the HP restrictions at the different tracks. Look at Darlington Wednesday night, the 13 car holding off everybody, then later on the 6 car on old tires doing the same - the 6 should of been passed right away on the green flag restart, not several laps later. NASCAR wants an even playing field for all. That's not racing, racing is have cars that have to be driven by drivers WHO can drive.
 

DaleTona

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For passing to happen, need to dirty the cars up and get rid of the HP restrictions at the different tracks. Look at Darlington Wednesday night, the 13 car holding off everybody, then later on the 6 car on old tires doing the same - the 6 should of been passed right away on the green flag restart, not several laps later. NASCAR wants an even playing field for all. That's not racing, racing is have cars that have to be driven by drivers WHO can drive.
Nah what you said is not racing. Racing is how much money you can stuff under the hood and how much you can outspend your opposition for better drivers/ R&D/Testing/parts/equipment/crew etc... Does not matter how good a driver you are if you drive for anyone but the top 3-4 teams.

People act like opening up the rules would allow for the cream to rise to the top. Instead Hendrick, Penske, Stewart Haas and Gibbs will likely outspend everyone else and further dominate even more than they already do IMO.

Put Jimmie Johnson or Kyle Busch in Bubba's or McDowell's ride and you could count on one finger how many top 10's they would get.

The only tue way to put the skill back in drivers hand 100% is IROC, either that, or kick the top 4 teams out of the sport forcefully so the rest don't have to compete with the multi-million dollar multicar giga-teams.

Racing has almost always been about who has money, and who doesn't. No damn aero package will change this fact.
 
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David Powers

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DaleTona, you're absolutely right. Not to take anything away from Richard Petty, but a number of his wins were at little Nascar sanctioned tracks like Manassas, VA where as a factory supported driver he was up against mostly local guys. "$$$ = speed, how fast do you want to go?" was one of the saying I used to hear in the 'old' days of racing. Back then you worked you way up to a good ride. I'm not saying it's better or worse now, but there's definitely more pressure.
 

Rollo75

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No.
For passing to happen, need to dirty the cars up and get rid of the HP restrictions at the different tracks. Look at Darlington Wednesday night, the 13 car holding off everybody, then later on the 6 car on old tires doing the same.

SCIENCE TIME!

Here's a handy picture:

draft.jpg

The question of how closely you can draft someone actually isn't a function of the rear wing on the back of the car but the splitter on the front.

By getting in behind someone, you get into a patch of disturbed air; which is lower pressure than the air which would normally be still. The issue for cars following (like in Formula One) is that front end grip is lessened; which reduces cornering speeds and thus increases lap times.

NASCAR removed the rear wing and and went back to a duck-type spoiler; citing safety concerns after 3 acrobatic accidents between May '09 and Mar '10 but the '11 season is where the improvements in racing were actually seen because they decided to make the splitter present more of a flat brick surface to the air at the front of the car.
 

DaleTona

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SCIENCE TIME!

Here's a handy picture:

View attachment 70146

The question of how closely you can draft someone actually isn't a function of the rear wing on the back of the car but the splitter on the front.

By getting in behind someone, you get into a patch of disturbed air; which is lower pressure than the air which would normally be still. The issue for cars following (like in Formula One) is that front end grip is lessened; which reduces cornering speeds and thus increases lap times.

NASCAR removed the rear wing and and went back to a duck-type spoiler; citing safety concerns after 3 acrobatic accidents between May '09 and Mar '10 but the '11 season is where the improvements in racing were actually seen because they decided to make the splitter present more of a flat brick surface to the air at the front of the car.

Somebody actually using science and not regurgitating the same shitty catch all miracule cure every fan thinks will instantly fix all problems!?!? We need more fans like you
 

Cola83

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Nah what you said is not racing. Racing is how much money you can stuff under the hood and how much you can outspend your opposition for better drivers/ R&D/Testing/parts/equipment/crew etc... Does not matter how good a driver you are if you drive for anyone but the top 3-4 teams.

People act like opening up the rules would allow for the cream to rise to the top. Instead Hendrick, Penske, Stewart Haas and Gibbs will likely outspend everyone else and further dominate even more than they already do IMO.

Put Jimmie Johnson or Kyle Busch in Bubba's or McDowell's ride and you could count on one finger how many top 10's they would get.

The only tue way to put the skill back in drivers hand 100% is IROC, either that, or kick the top 4 teams out of the sport forcefully so the rest don't have to compete with the multi-million dollar multicar giga-teams.

Racing has almost always been about who has money, and who doesn't. No damn aero package will change this fact.
Nope, I disagree on some of your points.... The BIG teams can't spend like they use to. NASCAR has limits on what you can use and buy. EXAMPLE: the air gun, some teams were spending thousands on them, but now NASCAR issues them.

You said put drivers in 100% IROC cars, well you may get your wish, because thats where they are heading... All I want to see is passing for the lead, NOT some driver on old tires who doesn't pit and because of Clean Air, he can hold off the field - That's not racing. A cup car engine makes 750 HP, at Charlotte they ran the 550 HP package, they were wide open most of the race. If they remove some of the spoiler and gave then all of their 750 HP, they would have to lift in the turns, thus making the drivers drive the cars and yes the top teams will win. They are always going to win, without the aero and HP packages or not - they are the cream of the crop. But NASCAR wants the other teams to win too and that justs not going to happen.
 

Rollo75

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No.
A cup car engine makes 750 HP, at Charlotte they ran the 550 HP package, they were wide open most of the race. If they remove some of the spoiler and gave then all of their 750 HP, they would have to lift in the turns, thus making the drivers drive the cars and yes the top teams will win.

Part of the problem is that NASCAR wants to hamstring the cars due to the fact that KE=½mv²

The jump from just:

200mph - 5.89212 MJ
to
205mph - 6.19041 MJ

0.3MJ is about the same kind of energy as carrying a pound of TNT in the car; which has to be dissipated; preferably not into the bodies of the meatbags behind the wheel or into the bodies of the meatbags behind the fences (like what happened at Le Mans in 1955).
The truth is that 550bhp is already sufficient to do ridiculous speeds; so I have no problem with this aspect.

All I want to see is passing for the lead, NOT some driver on old tires who doesn't pit and because of Clean Air, he can hold off the field - That's not racing.

This is where the organisers are on the horns of a dilemma. Always you have questions of relative downforce at the front and underneath the cars which is determined by the shapes of the splitters and diffusers and putting the power down to the road.

I like the idea of Supercars/1970 Aero Warriors/1960 Plymouth Fury style wings/fins, not because of the downforce but because the end plates provide stability in a straight line. NASCAR in particular has the unique problem where tagging people is tolerated. If you look at the incidents which caused Brendan Gaughan to flip at 'Dega last year, or Ryan Newman at Daytona this year, they are both caused by cars becoming unstable in a straight line and then causing a secondary impact.
If you had some end plates on the rear of the cars which ameliorated the wiggles which cause those accidents, I wonder if they mightn't have happened at all.

Also, fins look cool.

Richard+Petty+passes+Whitey+Gerken+during+the+1960+Daytona+500___.jpg
 

David Powers

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One thing about opening up some aspects - gear ratio for example - would be the separation of cars on restarts. When I look on YouTube at a Daytona race from the 80's or 90's I'm amazed at the initial spread of the field during the first lap of a restart. However, for every answer in life there is a problem...
 

Rollo75

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No.
Gen 3 Supercars spec (in Proper Units - Surrender Monkey Units)

Weight: 3086 lbs - 1400kg
Dist: 51/49
CoG: 18.5 inches - 470mm
Wheelbase: 105.3 inches - 2765mm
Engine: Approx 600bhp RWD
Tyres: 280/680 R18

Lead Tender Document Writers: DJR Penske.

Just quietly, I think that Supercars are going to adopt Gen7 NASCAR Regs with the existing rear wings.
 

JMurrayMO81

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Nascar tried the wing, didn't work out to well for them viewer wise, if they went with something like this, I'd stop watching or going to any races. Nascar is ment to have a spoiler on the back, and the smaller the better, makes them drivers have to drive and control their cars.

It also proved to be a problem when cars spun, that the air would get under the wing and lift them up and cause the car to flip easier.
 

Rollo75

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No.
It also proved to be a problem when cars spun, that the air would get under the wing and lift them up and cause the car to flip easier.

That isn't proved by the evidence; nor by the data set of cars flipping - see this thread:

 

Rollo75

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No.
degaA.jpg

DegaB.jpg

Both of these have a Gen-6 car presenting flat plane (which is the side of the car) to the air; which is forcing either air under the car and causing a vectored lifting force; or creating an underside turbulent space which then means that whatever is following is now acting as a wedge and therefore a vectored lifting force.

I still don't know how Gen-7 is supposed to correct this but the trigger before this of someone pushing from behind; surely has to be outlawed. This is stupid.
 
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Rollo75

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No.
Per @Highbank in Shoutbox:
"Was that a race at Kansas or what? (listened to it on NASCAR XM) I say drop the HP to 550 for ALL races."

The Supercars have since 1993 been rev limited to 7500rpm. That has meant a theoretical top speed with the diff ratio at 3.15:1 of 310km/h (192mph).
The 305cid engines get nominally 650bhp.

Probably NASCAR could get 210 with slightly taller gearing, an 8000rpm rev limit, from 306cid?
 

Cola83

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That was not racing today... just block the air from the guy behind you is not racing. I hate that package they ran today. It's just terrible.
 

Rollo75

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No.
Yet again, see above re the front splitter.

This package produces reasonable racing but only when there are cars very close to each other. The front splitter hitting disturbed air, meets lower pressure air; leading to less front end grip and lower cornering speeds.
That front splitter needs to be removed and replaced with just a front air dam at about 6 inches off of the ground.

I also have a preference for fins at the back to increase directional stability but again, what Kansas was, wasn't really a motor race fought for track space but rather, fought out of the rearview mirror and that's dumb.
 
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