2024 Zoom Racing World: Weekly Challenge

[Blitzman]

My 2 cents - I would recommend not running that mod until some enterprising, motivated and knowledgeable person gets in there and fixes it. That mod, like almost every other 'stock car' mod is not accurate to what it is supposed to represent, most likely using modern Corvette physics. I'm seeing a LOT of numbers matching the ACL TA mod, which tells me that sbh was most likely involved and his habit is to take a model, put it on a corvette and call it 'done'.


Obvious problems with the mod include -
Aero.ini files are the same as the ACL T/A cars, which need(ed) work. Very little, if any, lift or drag.
TOTALMASS=1440 - AC mass is car weight + 165# driver, without fuel so these cars come in at 3175# with driver w/o fuel. 1971 minimum weight was 3800# with fuel (22 gallons) w/o driver so AC weight would be 3830#. These cars are 655# under that minimum, about the weight of a T/A car.
INERTIA=1.84,1.1,4.6 - Not accurate and just so happen to match the ACL TA numbers, again... 1.953, 1.116, 5.217 are dimensions of a 1971 Charger.
MAX_FUEL=135 - Same as the (wrong) ACL TA cars, that fuel tank is 36 gallons. NASCAR and Trans Am maximum fuel cell capacity is 22 gallons so these cars have 14 gallons more fuel than allowed.
Gearbox - Every car uses the same gearbox, 2.00, 1.53, 1.25, 1.00. I have no clue what gearbox that is, those ratios do not match anything I've got on my list of gearboxes from 1962 though 1973. NASCAR required that Chrysler gearbox was used by the Chryslers, the Ford was used by Ford, GM by GM, etc.
INERTIA=0.210 ; engine inertia - this number is smaller than that ACL T/A numbers, which are supposed to be 305 CID, but this is supposed to be a 430 CID so it needs adjusting.
Axle ratios - All use the same and they don't match any rear end I've got from 1962 though 1973 (from a modern Corvette?).
WHEELBASE=2.80 - That's 110"... NASCAR Grand National/Winston Cup was open to car with 115" wheelbase or more. These cars, again, are not 1971 Cup eligible.

I'm tweaking the ACL T/A cars, making 'tunes' using the AC Car Tuner and have one (1) to finish up, will have it done later today. Want to run them? I would love to get some feedback and have more eyes on them to find anything I may have missed.

I can then start working on getting the SCL cars done. I started tweaking them years ago, when I first got AC. They will be accurate and unique.

If you really want to run stock cars, I suggest a game that runs stock cars and I know of a server hosting Atlanta at this moments but won't mention it here since this is the Zoom AC thread.

AC is not stock car oval friendly. No wedge or weight adjustments and the tires always seem to be too sticky, causing the car to hop in the corners.

Have fun!!

Yep, yep and yep LOL..

I did think they did not feel heavy enough, like there should be more inertial effect.

Yeah I like the T/A and would like to see what you came up with.
Can test em out sometime when you want.
Ha, Ziggy, the master of specs! - Spec-Master 2000! LOL.
Instigator of numerical data, bring out the calculator, incorrect values, you're not safe, when the ZiggyMan stays up late.

In a bit better mood now LOL.

have to talk with you later. Stay well!
Take care all,
Duane

 

[Highbank]

Zoom Rule Number 1...resist the urge to whine, it'll all work out eventually

 

[ZiggyM]

Send me a set of Ludwig Vistalites in random colors and I'll get right down on them!

Can you do "La Villa Strangiato"?

Ziggy mentioned dialing up the TA Legends? Im always down to run those!! Never messed with Car Tuner so not sure what that does. The ones I did we're gearing them toward a series of cars that all performed as close to equal as possible. Unrealistic as far as what the cars did in real life, but equal in a series so you could pick whatever body/year you want and still be competitive. With real life weights and HP in Assetto Corsa the Mustangs run off and hide. The 65 will be in it's own zip code.

The Car Tuner unpacks and makes a copy of the car and sticks it under the 'parent' in game which allows one to get in and edit the files so they aren't mucking up the original. It's just a txt editor that scrolls through the files instead of having to open them all individually. It does NOT do any formulas or other stuff, just an editor.

I'm going with 1972 rules so every car has a min weight of 3200#, 1x4 bbl carb and engine may be stroked or bored to a max of 305 CID, which gives them all about the same weight and HP. HP is at the wheels for the list below. Top speeds are from Talladega Grand American races between 69-71 and will need some massaging to get 'perfect' since some of the cars listed did not run in those races. Any weight over 3200# is listed next to "+". for the cars whose shipping weight was above the minimum+driver+fuel. Cars underweight has 'ballast' added to the rear to meet the min weight. Weight balance is Front% static and at 120 MPH.

65 Mustang - 289+0.060 bore to 298, 405 HP. Top speed 168 MPH. 51.7%, 49.1%
67 Cougar - 289+0.0108 bore with 3" stroke to 304, 413 HP. Top speed 174 MPH. 52.1%, 51.8%
68 Camaro - 302+0.010 to 304, 413 HP. Top speed 172 MPH. 55.1%, 52.7%
68 Dart - 340 with 2.97" stroke to 305, 415 HP. Top speed 171 MPH. 56.7%, 54.7%
68 Firebird - 302+0.010 to 304, 413 HP. Top speed 171 MPH. +89#. 58.1%, 55.8%
69 Camaro - 302+0.010 to 304, 413 HP. Top speed 175 MPH. 56.6%, 54.1%
69 Javelin - 290+0.090 to 304, 407 HP. Top speed 176 MPH. 57.3%, 54.9%
69 Mustang - 302+0.020 to 305, 414 HP. Top speed 176 MPH. 55.7%, 53.5%
70 Camaro - 350+0.020 with 3" stroke to 305, 414 HP. Top speed 173 MPH. 58.2%, 55.2%
70 Challenger - 340 with 2.97" stroke to 305 CID, 415 HP. Top speed 173 MPH. 54.8%, 52.4%
70 'Cuda - 340 with 2.97" stroke to 305 CID, 415 HP. Top speed 173 MPH. 55.6%, 53.1%
70 Firebird - 303+0.010 to 305, 417 HP. Top speed 173 MPH. +183# 59.7%, 57.5%
70 Mustang - 302+0.020 to 305, 414 HP. Top speed 173 MPH. +68# 57.4, 55.2%
71 Javelin - 360+0.030 with 2.87" stroke to 305, 417 HP. Top speed 175 MPH. +86# 61.4%, 59.2%

I use the FIA and/or AMA spec sheets available at the following sites -

FIA - https://historicdb.fia.com/
AMA - https://catalog.hathitrust.org/Sear...r[]=AMA specifications&page=2&pagesize=20&ft=

Aero data is from wind tunnel tests from Ford and Chrysler of the bigger, Grand National cars, scaled down for each car's dimensions, which gives each car a different amount of lift and drag.
Weight balance is from the AMA spec sheets with cars under 3200# having 'ballast' up to 3200# added to the rear.
1965 Mustang has no spoilers so it doesn't have lift reduction.
1967 Cougar has a front spoiler but no rear spoiler so it's got some lift reduction on the front.
1968 and 1969 cars have small front and rear spoilers so they get some lift reduction.
1970 and 1971 cars have YUGE front and rear spoilers so they get the most lift reduction.

My 'solution' to league racing with different cars is to have a draft and/or use points to buy and repair cars.

Have fun!!

 

[Blitzman]

Send me a set of Ludwig Vistalites in random colors and I'll get right down on them!

I get carried away thinking about/missing Nascar, then when it gets real and we start contemplating doing it with AC it kinda sucks the fun out of it. Similar to what you and Ziggy say, it's just not setup for oval racing, unfortunately. I saw a youtube of some "Super Late Model" cars running at Hickory or somewhere and it looked kinda fun. But it's still not anything close to NR2003 as far as immersion, reality, rules, ect.. Truth be told it's probably not worth the trouble to do in AC. rFactor2 is probably much better, but not sure it's even close to NR2003 either. 2025 someone is supposedly coming out with a new Nascar game. Maybe it'll be worth a look!

Ziggy mentioned dialing up the TA Legends? Im always down to run those!! Never messed with Car Tuner so not sure what that does. The ones I did we're gearing them toward a series of cars that all performed as close to equal as possible. Unrealistic as far as what the cars did in real life, but equal in a series so you could pick whatever body/year you want and still be competitive. With real life weights and HP in Assetto Corsa the Mustangs run off and hide. The 65 will be in it's own zip code.

OK finally getting back to this...

Ah cool, Ludwigs. My old drummer had a very nice old blue tortoise shell kit. Just ditch the old squeaky Speed King pedal LOL.

LOL yeah, the Stang was quite high spirited! Need a Bucking Bronco emoji ha. No I said Bucking... Har.
Yes Ziggy and I had been talking about Monday nights and the T/A's. Just been doing stuff Wednesdays since Bill Bud is having troubles. Will fill in if wanted on Wednesday.
Was a bit burnt last Wed from Sinus stuff and not sleeping well, got more of a headache from trying to hurry but them hardly anyone showed and half left LOL.

Yeah, Same with the 70's cars I put on, saw a video that made them look really good, but was not as good as I hoped. Yep does not have the Sassy of a NASCAR Chassis. NR did hit a lot right on. Crazy that the AI and spotter were pretty darn decent for back then. Better net code years before EA got it handled. I remember NR2003 on dial-up, and EA's Nascar Thunder that was just funky and net buggy.

Mick you mean the iRacing NASCAR that is supposed to happen or is there something else?

Be cool if there were a say a mostly pre-80's Stock Car and T?A game that was as true as NR2003 and up to date!
Heya, take care, hope to run with you soon.
Blitz
Take Care All!
Feel Better Bill!

 

[Blitzman]

Can you do "La Villa Strangiato"?

The Car Tuner unpacks and makes a copy of the car and sticks it under the 'parent' in game which allows one to get in and edit the files so they aren't mucking up the original. It's just a txt editor that scrolls through the files instead of having to open them all individually. It does NOT do any formulas or other stuff, just an editor.

I'm going with 1972 rules so every car has a min weight of 3200#, 1x4 bbl carb and engine may be stroked or bored to a max of 305 CID, which gives them all about the same weight and HP. HP is at the wheels for the list below. Top speeds are from Talladega Grand American races between 69-71 and will need some massaging to get 'perfect' since some of the cars listed did not run in those races. Any weight over 3200# is listed next to "+". for the cars whose shipping weight was above the minimum+driver+fuel. Cars underweight has 'ballast' added to the rear to meet the min weight. Weight balance is Front% static and at 120 MPH.

65 Mustang - 289+0.060 bore to 298, 405 HP. Top speed 168 MPH. 51.7%, 49.1%
67 Cougar - 289+0.0108 bore with 3" stroke to 304, 413 HP. Top speed 174 MPH. 52.1%, 51.8%
68 Camaro - 302+0.010 to 304, 413 HP. Top speed 172 MPH. 55.1%, 52.7%
68 Dart - 340 with 2.97" stroke to 305, 415 HP. Top speed 171 MPH. 56.7%, 54.7%
68 Firebird - 302+0.010 to 304, 413 HP. Top speed 171 MPH. +89#. 58.1%, 55.8%
69 Camaro - 302+0.010 to 304, 413 HP. Top speed 175 MPH. 56.6%, 54.1%
69 Javelin - 290+0.090 to 304, 407 HP. Top speed 176 MPH. 57.3%, 54.9%
69 Mustang - 302+0.020 to 305, 414 HP. Top speed 176 MPH. 55.7%, 53.5%
70 Camaro - 350+0.020 with 3" stroke to 305, 414 HP. Top speed 173 MPH. 58.2%, 55.2%
70 Challenger - 340 with 2.97" stroke to 305 CID, 415 HP. Top speed 173 MPH. 54.8%, 52.4%
70 'Cuda - 340 with 2.97" stroke to 305 CID, 415 HP. Top speed 173 MPH. 55.6%, 53.1%
70 Firebird - 303+0.010 to 305, 417 HP. Top speed 173 MPH. +183# 59.7%, 57.5%
70 Mustang - 302+0.020 to 305, 414 HP. Top speed 173 MPH. +68# 57.4, 55.2%
71 Javelin - 360+0.030 with 2.87" stroke to 305, 417 HP. Top speed 175 MPH. +86# 61.4%, 59.2%

I use the FIA and/or AMA spec sheets available at the following sites -

FIA - https://historicdb.fia.com/
AMA - https://catalog.hathitrust.org/Search/Home?type[]=all&lookfor[]=AMA specifications&page=2&pagesize=20&ft=

Aero data is from wind tunnel tests from Ford and Chrysler of the bigger, Grand National cars, scaled down for each car's dimensions, which gives each car a different amount of lift and drag.
Weight balance is from the AMA spec sheets with cars under 3200# having 'ballast' up to 3200# added to the rear.
1965 Mustang has no spoilers so it doesn't have lift reduction.
1967 Cougar has a front spoiler but no rear spoiler so it's got some lift reduction on the front.
1968 and 1969 cars have small front and rear spoilers so they get some lift reduction.
1970 and 1971 cars have YUGE front and rear spoilers so they get the most lift reduction.

My 'solution' to league racing with different cars is to have a draft and/or use points to buy and repair cars.

Have fun!!

Wowzer Bowzer!!! Nitty Gritty city.

Need to go over stuff tomorrow a bit if possible.

Looks pretty impressive. Rock on, stay well!
Blitz

 

[M_Nesevitch]

Mick you mean the iRacing NASCAR that is supposed to happen or is there something else?

 

[The_Tigg]

Why don't we just run these


at all US tracks, or is that to easy.

 

[Blitzman]

Why don't we just run these
View attachment 164466

at all US tracks, or is that to easy.

I guess it is too easy LOL.
There ya are Tigg!
Those were the VRC T/A2 right?

I think we were just wanting something older, re-kindle those younger days when so much was better in the world and all.

Stay well!

 

[Blitzman]

View attachment 164465

Finally after 20 years of Die Hard NR fans bitchin' and complainin' because one of the best things was just thrown aside, they FINALLY do something for US! Still sure they care about the Dollar$ than the Drivers... LOL
Cool Cool, now I hope they have listened to "I am not going to pay that kind of money for something I do not even physically get to hold in my hands!"

Since they have some of the brains behind NR2003 in their mix, hopefully it will follow what NR strived for back when. They(old devs from NR) are the ones that made NASCAR Chassis Physics in a game and hopefully they hit it again. Seems like the best bet we have for getting us a modern day NASCAR fix.

Cool Cool!
Take care!
Duane

 

[M_Nesevitch]

Im sure it'll be fun. I think the only debate is will it be more of a sim or arcade game. We'll see.

 

[The_Tigg]

I think we were just wanting something older, re-kindle those younger days when so much was better in the world and all.

We've done that several time over the years

I guess it is too easy LOL.
There ya are Tigg!
Those were the VRC T/A2 right?

Yes and yes it's to easy, simple and fun, sorry I follow the K.I.S.S. rule.

I have no interest in downloading something I'll have to work at to drive, my interest in sim racing is wanning. If I sim race on line again it'll be in B.o.P.ed cars, that way no one has an advantage over anyone else and it comes down to diver skill.

 

[ZiggyM]

I think we were just wanting something older, re-kindle those younger days when so much was better in the world and all.

No, that was me. John and others want to run modern cars. I'm the one that suggested the older cars.

I have no interest in downloading something I'll have to work at to drive, my interest in sim racing is wanning. If I sim race on line again it'll be in B.o.P.ed cars, that way no one has an advantage over anyone else and it comes down to diver skill.

That's known as "everyone driving the same car" in spec racing, something that NR2003 was good at. I always feel if people want to drive the same car, they should drive the same car instead of driving the same car that looks different. The "I'm in a Ferrari!!" that is actually a Ford crowd are weird to me.. Just drive a Ford! LOL But I guess the illusion of being in a Ferrari while being in a Mustang is what floats many a boat.

Im sure it'll be fun. I think the only debate is will it be more of a sim or arcade game. We'll see.

If it's console, it's probably arcade. I think iRacing will keep the simulation aspect as pay to race and give the console crowd an arcade game. I could be wrong, I have not heard anything of it, just going by what I've seen NASCAR and iRacing do over the years.

Either way, have fun!!

 

[Blitzman]

Im sure it'll be fun. I think the only debate is will it be more of a sim or arcade game. We'll see.

Again, I hope they have been listening, and give at least half a damn. LOL.

 

[Blitzman]

No, that was me. John and others want to run modern cars. I'm the one that suggested the older cars.

That's known as "everyone driving the same car" in spec racing, something that NR2003 was good at. I always feel if people want to drive the same car, they should drive the same car instead of driving the same car that looks different. The "I'm in a Ferrari!!" that is actually a Ford crowd are weird to me.. Just drive a Ford! LOL But I guess the illusion of being in a Ferrari while being in a Mustang is what floats many a boat.

If it's console, it's probably arcade. I think iRacing will keep the simulation aspect as pay to race and give the console crowd an arcade game. I could be wrong, I have not heard anything of it, just going by what I've seen NASCAR and iRacing do over the years.

Either way, have fun!!

Well, Me too on the old stuff. I do not like many real cars past 1980 LOL.
I always wanted to drive my Hornet in one of these race games ha.
Stay well, Have Fun! Rock On! Roll Out! Give a scream and let it out, let the world know what you're all about, I love In-and-Out!!

 

[C5Volzfan]

Okay, I have a question and a request:
What are we doing, if anything, Wednesday night? (and on what server, please)

My request; If we know what we are doing, please post a link to a download, preferably CM friendly, to the mod, cars, etc. And the track, if it is not something we have all ran before.

If I'm going to run Wednesday, and I know Trae and myself, would like to, I need to get it on my system and practice, probably offline to make sure it's something I want to do, and can do in an manner that is fun. I don't want to wait until Wednesday to find out it's a different mod, or track or ??? Just let me work with it for a couple days before we get online.

@Highbank Bill, I hope you're feeling better, got the flu thing licked and have your computer fixed. If you have something up, that's great. I know it's not easy dealing with us yahoos, and your work and patience are much appreciated.

@Blitzman Duane, I truly appreciate you trying to "step in" and give us somewhere to race, and if that's what we're doing Wednesday, I'm fine with that. But we need things to be simple to get installed and easy to get online. I tried several times last week (Trae did too) and could not get the "install missing content" link to work. Maybe it's our systems...I don't know....but I need to get it on my machine tomorrow and play with it if I'm going to race Wednesday....which I would love to do!


So if anyone has anything planned, please let me know. I'm up for trying anything that the group wants. Not promising I'll like it, but I'll try it!

 

[Blitzman]

Okay, I have a question and a request:
What are we doing, if anything, Wednesday night? (and on what server, please)

My request; If we know what we are doing, please post a link to a download, preferably CM friendly, to the mod, cars, etc. And the track, if it is not something we have all ran before.

If I'm going to run Wednesday, and I know Trae and myself, would like to, I need to get it on my system and practice, probably offline to make sure it's something I want to do, and can do in an manner that is fun. I don't want to wait until Wednesday to find out it's a different mod, or track or ??? Just let me work with it for a couple days before we get online.

@Highbank Bill, I hope you're feeling better, got the flu thing licked and have your computer fixed. If you have something up, that's great. I know it's not easy dealing with us yahoos, and your work and patience are much appreciated.

@Blitzman Duane, I truly appreciate you trying to "step in" and give us somewhere to race, and if that's what we're doing Wednesday, I'm fine with that. But we need things to be simple to get installed and easy to get online. I tried several times last week (Trae did too) and could not get the "install missing content" link to work. Maybe it's our systems...I don't know....but I need to get it on my machine tomorrow and play with it if I'm going to race Wednesday....which I would love to do!


So if anyone has anything planned, please let me know. I'm up for trying anything that the group wants. Not promising I'll like it, but I'll try it!

Heya John,
I just did not know for sure soon enough myself. And with the new server software I have to re-upload everything(I had going before as well as new stuff) through it to my server so a lot is not already set up.
On the Install link, I noticed that I had put the wrong filename in.. I tested after fixing and it worked fine. Sorry for the confusion.

OK, @The_Tigg mentioned the T/A2 cars. I was thinking of stuff for The Monday AC Ziggy wants to get going. That's what the other was about.

But dang, yeah Tigg n all, if I am filling in Wednesday for Bill's thing, to me(Tigg) You kind of should have some more say in that, you and Bill are part of who is running the show here. and yes if you guys want to do the TA2's Great Mangs!
Or even the Johhny Cars LOL BCRC GT3 where they? And there is the car that @Jebrown Jeb did, that was fun.
Was not just laughing you off Tiggster.

For the Monday thing is what @ZiggyM is working on.
Tomorrow night we should be running those, join if wanted! Ziggy has to send them still so not available yet.

OK So, Tigg, John, Bill, all. Let me know if you want to do one of the others I mentioned. but I'll plan on the T/A2's interim?
I think the only Steam GUID I do not have for assigning cars is @Trae00 Trae's.

Sorry, that I have maybe been a bit more uptight...

And yes I really feel bad for @Highbank Bill. Get your good self doing better Man.

Stay safe!
Duane

 

[ZiggyM]

OK, @The_Tigg mentioned the T/A2 cars. I was thinking of stuff for The Monday AC Ziggy wants to get going. That's what the other was about.

For the Monday thing is what @ZiggyM is working on.
Tomorrow night we should be running those, join if wanted! Ziggy has to send them still so not available yet.

Don't mention other series/servers/events in this thread, please. Especially if I'm involved.

Please Do Not Post anything about other servers or series in the thread...It confuses folks and honestly is disrespectful to me...there, I said it.

I talked about the T/A cars with realistic physics, mistakenly thinking people might want to run them, not to 'promote' another server or series.


Have fun!!

 

[Blitzman]

Don't mention other series/servers/events in this thread, please. Especially if I'm involved.

I talked about the T/A cars with realistic physics, mistakenly thinking people might want to run them, not to 'promote' another server or series.


Have fun!!

Heya Ziggy @ZiggyM
This is the Zoom thread though not yours LOL. Now I am more confused than usual.
I was trying to sort things in one place as this is where Tigg Mentioned the Other TA the VRC TA2's, for Wednesday.
Not sleeping well and real tired lately.

Hope you are doing well,
Duane

 

[Blitzman]

Heya Ziggy @ZiggyM
This is the Zoom thread though not yours LOL. Now I am more confused than usual.
I was trying to sort things in one place as this is where Tigg Mentioned the Other TA the VRC TA2's, for Wednesday.
Not sleeping well and real tired lately.

Hope you are doing well,
Duane

I think it was @The_Tigg Tigg that got mixed up about it first(I think?) I think he thought you were talking about the ones you are working on, that you were talking about doing them on Wednesday, But you were talking about Monday. I am always mixed up LOL.

Was just saying. hard to convey the meanings sometimes online.

TTYL,
Take care,
Duane

 

[ZiggyM]

I think it was @The_Tigg Tigg that got mixed up about it first(I think?) I think he thought you were talking about the ones you are working on, that you were talking about doing them on Wednesday, But you were talking about Monday. I am always mixed up LOL.

Was just saying. hard to convey the meanings sometimes online.

TTYL,
Take care,
Duane

Nope. I was letting people know I was working on them and what I was doing with them, how they would be different. I never mentioned anything about any particular day or server, as requested in the 2nd post of this thread that states not mentioning any other leagues or servers.

Heya Ziggy @ZiggyM
This is the Zoom thread though not yours LOL. Now I am more confused than usual.
I was trying to sort things in one place as this is where Tigg Mentioned the Other TA the VRC TA2's, for Wednesday.
Not sleeping well and real tired lately.

Hope you are doing well,
Duane

I am well aware what thread this is.